casandra on Apr 6 2009, 08:36 PM said:

haha the only reason I need a man in the lab is to reach things for me.. (im only 5 foot )

Nabi on Apr 20 2009, 04:41 PM said:

you're right, there might not be as many women as men presenting (in a general context), but in this conference i went to the presenter said something like, "today we'll count with two researchers who you will know only by mentioning their first name: Vicki (Chandler) and Marjori (Matzke)", i'd say for the quality of their research rather than their gender.

toejam on Apr 20 2009, 09:37 AM said:

Does this mean people often look at gender before looking at the quality of work?

If I am Mickey, people would respect me more in research.

I remembered reading from Science or Nature that a researcher converted from female to male, and noticed the difference in people treating her and him.

there's definitely some 'old boy network' going on in research, in my limited experience. there are many women techs and few women PIs. it IS getting better, but it takes a long time.

Minnie Mouse on Apr 21 2009, 08:24 AM said:

Reminds me of something I once read.

(With apologies to Bill Bryson for my misquoting)
Science was able to make great progress in the 20th century because sexism ensured that at least half of its’ best and brightest talent was retained at the ‘lab bench’ where the useful work was done.

Minnie Mouse on Apr 20 2009, 11:24 PM said:

what i meant is that because there are fewer women it is easier to recognize their names (at least in some areas).

DRT on Apr 20 2009, 03:53 PM said:

I've seen young women with spunk being put down in the lab until they "get" their place. Had my share of it. I have still much more doubt about myself, hesitate more, speak less directly and with me, it is definitely learned, because naturally I was always impulsive and a bit tomboyish. In some places, PI's still train women to listen to orders, and they speak on the equal basis with guys. It's so subconcious I swear sometimes I wish I punch those people, or do anything else to make them realize. Hadn't I change the lab, I'd probably get myself in the situation of one young female assistant professor, who was in fact a puppet of the old prof, and in the conference, he started to answer the questions at HER OWN PRESENTATION, not letting the woman speak. I am not there anymore, thanks heavens!

Pretty ones have it even worse! How many times I've seen the reaction... What was this lady with nice bosom speaking... what, what cloning? Wait, is she really smart, because she's too blonde to look like one? I avoid dressing nice at the lab.

100% male a the moment
(7)

little sickening

Is the purpose of science to produce sound and novel observations and advance understanding of the special area or serve what some might see as poltical correctness in a balance of men and women in the lab? If we presumed the former as primary goal - is it best served by accomodations made for maternity?

As for stats - there are clearly more girls in te nation's science fairs and, as they progress, more at most professional meetings. Suggest that fewer at the prof rank (and I'm not familair with the stats there) is prob not due to maternity limitations because there are so many accomodations.

GeorgeWolff on Jul 5 2009, 07:37 AM said:

Hi George,

If this will provide more opportunities and make it easier for women who’d like to contribute to achieve this purpose, why not? I know this sense of entitlement grates but only if we’re living in a just world that there is no need for it. If women demand for equal opportunity, then would you say we’re not entitled to it?

Besides, I wonder what you’d include in these “many accommodations” but, ok….granted we now have legal recourse against sexism, paid parental leave, better salaries for women (although disparities still occur), subsidised daycare systems etc. but what about subtle forms of sexism that still exist? An employer who’s trying to choose between two equally qualified applicants but one’s a female in her child-bearing years, who’d get the job? And the same with job promotions.

Oftentimes, it’s the women themselves who put up the barriers…. How many women PhD or postdoc students get pregnant while in the experimentation stage of their theses? Can you imagine the paperwork/hassle that they and the PI have to go through so they can continue working in the lab? No acrylamide, no radioactivity, no solvent esp DMSO etc., they must replan their work schedule throughout the duration of the pregnancy and it’s not only them but the entire lab is also affected. Then not to mention all the physical and physiological changes...So having children is always a very difficult decision and no wonder it’s always postponed for much later and sometimes, already too late. Would it then be fair to say that men don’t go through this same difficult decision making?

How often do we hear that guys have a hard time choosing between family and career? Or have a ticking biological clock? And when the child arrives, more often than not, who’d be taking care more of it? Whose priorities are going to change? Science or at least research would lose a lot of these talented women if the working environment and esp the bosses/PIs would not be equally supportive…and if we have to count on this “entitlement” I ask again, why not?