How to write a cover letter for postdoc position application - (Sep/18/2011 )
I suppose you allready checked the universities in that area and all the spin off companies of those universities?
Have you also contacted your supervisor/promotor of you PhD? Maybe he knows some people/places?
Or the contacts you made during your PhD..? Maybe those people need help at their labs etc..
I dont know how it works in Canada, but here in Belgium a lot of the post docs arent even "open" (they dont even publish them). A lot of those post docs are just "given" to people they know.. (they either roll into it based on their PhD or because they know certain people... Remember that its a small world (at least if you stick to your area of expertise)).
Pito everything you said is totally true. I am aware many positions are not posted on the net, and I am also aware it's better to stick to one area and go ahead, or ask my own supervisor for help...but....I am already a post-doc under the same supervisor and I am scared of asking her for help, although I know she already got a lot of connections to put me in the US or Canada or anywhere else...
My area of expertise is apoptosis, the mitochondrial pathways and Bcl-2 proteins, and I do want to stick to those and carry on because I've been working on them for the past 7-8 years....but I'm married and my wife cannot cope with the city we are living right now, and I have no other choice but to leave! It is really difficult living in here...and we must leave!
I have not checked every university or institute in Vancouver area. I think I have posted less than 5 applications in British Columbia, the rest were for elswere in Canada, where our other relatives live.
My best connection was my external advisor who was also from Vancouver but is an associate prof at the University of South Carolina, USA. He could have helped me but recently he ran into some troubles that I do not want to bother him with e-mails and requests although he is already listed as referee in my CV.
When I asked him why he left Vancouver to work in the US he replied he can get more grant and money in the US than in Canada, and that Vancouver is a very expensive city....true...but I have to go there because of my wife, atleast for a while. I am also aware there are more oppurtunities in the US, but Canada is my priority.
I did my MSc in the UK, and it would be easier to find a job in UK, than Canada or US, but personally I think UK wouldn't have a bright future for me. I am now living in Kuala Lumpur, and I think it's enough living here, it's time to move.
pito on Thu Oct 27 13:38:06 2011 said:
I suppose you allready checked the universities in that area and all the spin off companies of those universities?
Have you also contacted your supervisor/promotor of you PhD? Maybe he knows some people/places?
Or the contacts you made during your PhD..? Maybe those people need help at their labs etc..
I dont know how it works in Canada, but here in Belgium a lot of the post docs arent even "open" (they dont even publish them). A lot of those post docs are just "given" to people they know.. (they either roll into it based on their PhD or because they know certain people... Remember that its a small world (at least if you stick to your area of expertise)).
Curtis on Fri Oct 28 02:44:47 2011 said:
Pito everything you said is totally true. I am aware many positions are not posted on the net, and I am also aware it's better to stick to one area and go ahead, or ask my own supervisor for help...but....I am already a post-doc under the same supervisor and I am scared of asking her for help, although I know she already got a lot of connections to put me in the US or Canada or anywhere else...
My area of expertise is apoptosis, the mitochondrial pathways and Bcl-2 proteins, and I do want to stick to those and carry on because I've been working on them for the past 7-8 years....but I'm married and my wife cannot cope with the city we are living right now, and I have no other choice but to leave! It is really difficult living in here...and we must leave!
I have not checked every university or institute in Vancouver area. I think I have posted less than 5 applications in British Columbia, the rest were for elswere in Canada, where our other relatives live.
My best connection was my external advisor who was also from Vancouver but is an associate prof at the University of South Carolina, USA. He could have helped me but recently he ran into some troubles that I do not want to bother him with e-mails and requests although he is already listed as referee in my CV.
When I asked him why he left Vancouver to work in the US he replied he can get more grant and money in the US than in Canada, and that Vancouver is a very expensive city....true...but I have to go there because of my wife, atleast for a while. I am also aware there are more oppurtunities in the US, but Canada is my priority.
I did my MSc in the UK, and it would be easier to find a job in UK, than Canada or US, but personally I think UK wouldn't have a bright future for me. I am now living in Kuala Lumpur, and I think it's enough living here, it's time to move.
pito on Thu Oct 27 13:38:06 2011 said:
I suppose you allready checked the universities in that area and all the spin off companies of those universities?
Have you also contacted your supervisor/promotor of you PhD? Maybe he knows some people/places?
Or the contacts you made during your PhD..? Maybe those people need help at their labs etc..
I dont know how it works in Canada, but here in Belgium a lot of the post docs arent even "open" (they dont even publish them). A lot of those post docs are just "given" to people they know.. (they either roll into it based on their PhD or because they know certain people... Remember that its a small world (at least if you stick to your area of expertise)).
Hi. I am also experiencing lots of unsuccessful post doc application, worse than you, Curtis! I am finishing my PhD, and have been applying for post doc since February this year. So far, I have sent out about 25 application letters, but none of them return as positive outcome. I will keep applying, just because I am so stupidly, deeply falling in love with infectious diseases research. Perhaps chronicly addicted! Just wonder if there is any rehab centre for science addict! lol
Anyway, thank you very much for this post. I benefit a lot from this.
Another point is that, it is not easy to get a postdoc job in UK at this moment of time, especially for foreigner! I heard that they are going to change their employ visa thingy soon, or probably have changed already. Anyway, I don't really pay attention to this, as I don't intend to stay back for postdoc here. I have enough with UK.
Curtis on Fri Oct 28 02:44:47 2011 said:
My best connection was my external advisor who was also from Vancouver but is an associate prof at the University of South Carolina, USA. He could have helped me but recently he ran into some troubles that I do not want to bother him with e-mails and requests although he is already listed as referee in my CV.
When I asked him why he left Vancouver to work in the US he replied he can get more grant and money in the US than in Canada, and that Vancouver is a very expensive city....true...but I have to go there because of my wife, atleast for a while. I am also aware there are more oppurtunities in the US, but Canada is my priority.
I did my MSc in the UK, and it would be easier to find a job in UK, than Canada or US, but personally I think UK wouldn't have a bright future for me. I am now living in Kuala Lumpur, and I think it's enough living here, it's time to move.
???
Sorry to say this but: ASK HIM!!!!!
Send him an email or even better: call him!!!
Listen, you have 7 years of post doc experience, by know you should now one of the golden rules in science: NETWORKING!
Be active!
Got a question, ask it!
The worst that could happen is that he tells you to piss off because he hasnt got the time.. but face it: he was your best connection (I am supposing you guys have a good relationship going one between you? Or is your best connection the only one you ever said "hi" too?)
And if this doesnt work: get in touch with the others you worked with, had discussions with.. 7 years of post doc experience! Hell, you should know all the people in your field!
Be active and being active is more then just sending email!
I know this sounds harsh.. but you need to grasp every change you have...
(Keep in mind that often/sometimes even "idiots" get good jobs because they know how to network or have a big mouth/dare to ask/do! You can be the best scientist out there.. if you dont have got the balls to dare stuff ... nobody will know you/care about you. Its sad that I have to say this, but often its better to have a "big mouth" (or be manupilative/play good friends with people) then being a great scientist....)
PS. is Vancouver your only option? Did you concider other countries too?
It's bec he's got family over there, pito.... and I think he only recently finished his PhD (this year?) and has just started with his postdoc in the same lab (right, Curtis?)
@Curtis: I guess you've already tried going to the university websites to search for postdoc opportunities? It’s definitely more tough and highly competitive to get into UBC or even SFU…and Vancouver is one of the most expensive cities here in Canada so you probably have a better chance in Ontario where there are more universities/institutes to apply to and relatively cheaper to live in (except perhaps Toronto) compared with BC. And your ex-advisor is right, there are more grant opportunities in the US than here. Each year, research funding has been decreasing so it is more and more difficult for labs to hire personnel and especially international applicants. They’d rather get grad students instead. Besides, those who are already here (whether doing a PhD or the first postdoc) usually have the advantage…but that doesn’t mean that you shld stop searching….oftentimes persistence pays off and if you can ask people to introduce you or make connections for you, as pito has suggested, then just give it a try…
casandra on Fri Oct 28 21:27:50 2011 said:
It's bec he's got family over there, pito.... and I think he only recently finished his PhD (this year?) and has just started with his postdoc in the same lab (right, Curtis?)
@Curtis: I guess you've already tried going to the university websites to search for postdoc opportunities? It’s definitely more tough and highly competitive to get into UBC or even SFU…and Vancouver is one of the most expensive cities here in Canada so you probably have a better chance in Ontario where there are more universities/institutes to apply to and relatively cheaper to live in (except perhaps Toronto) compared with BC. And your ex-advisor is right, there are more grant opportunities in the US than here. Each year, research funding has been decreasing so it is more and more difficult for labs to hire personnel and especially international applicants. They’d rather get grad students instead. Besides, those who are already here (whether doing a PhD or the first postdoc) usually have the advantage…but that doesn’t mean that you shld stop searching….oftentimes persistence pays off and if you can ask people to introduce you or make connections for you, as pito has suggested, then just give it a try…
Ah ok, my bad..
I assumed he ment 7 years of post doc experience!
Exactly my point... if you see what I mean...
virusfan on Fri Oct 28 11:04:17 2011 said:
I have enough with UK.
me too, it wasn't a really ideal place. except for London...
by the way, I also work on viruses, I use them in cancer therapy
pito on Fri Oct 28 17:37:00 2011 said:
(Keep in mind that often/sometimes even "idiots" get good jobs because they know how to network or have a big mouth/dare to ask/do! You can be the best scientist out there.. if you dont have got the balls to dare stuff ... nobody will know you/care about you. Its sad that I have to say this, but often its better to have a "big mouth" (or be manupilative/play good friends with people) then being a great scientist....)
That is exactly my problem, I don't have a big mouth!
yes Casandra's right. I got family and relatives in BC, that's why I want to move there, but at the same time I do understand that we can apply for Canadian immigration too and work there legally, but this will take at least 3-4 years. We are applying right now actually...but we thought of getting employment visa and move there at the same time our immigration application is being reviewed.
Casandra is also right about my degree, I received my degree this year, but I've been working as post-doc since February.
The other thing is that my Canadian advisor doesn't sound OK these days. But I will try to contact him later definitely.
Curtis on Sat Oct 29 06:10:07 2011 said:
pito on Fri Oct 28 17:37:00 2011 said:
(Keep in mind that often/sometimes even "idiots" get good jobs because they know how to network or have a big mouth/dare to ask/do! You can be the best scientist out there.. if you dont have got the balls to dare stuff ... nobody will know you/care about you. Its sad that I have to say this, but often its better to have a "big mouth" (or be manupilative/play good friends with people) then being a great scientist....)
That is exactly my problem, I don't have a big mouth!
yes Casandra's right. I got family and relatives in BC, that's why I want to move there, but at the same time I do understand that we can apply for Canadian immigration too and work there legally, but this will take at least 3-4 years. We are applying right now actually...but we thought of getting employment visa and move there at the same time our immigration application is being reviewed.
Casandra is also right about my degree, I received my degree this year, but I've been working as post-doc since February.
The other thing is that my Canadian advisor doesn't sound OK these days. But I will try to contact him later definitely.
Well, then its time you start working on your "mouth".
Its time you start to get in touch with your co-workers, people you met etc..
Always keep in mind that people are more inclined to offer familiar faces the job.. If they know you, seen you.. its always an advantage (unless you made yourself look like a fool
).And your canadian advisor doesnt sound ok? So you allready spoke to him? If yes then why didnt you raise the question about your move to canada??
You had the perfect "reason/excuse" to mention your potential move to canada!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me make it obvious for you:
you: hey, how are you?
him: not so good, I moved to usa, because canada wasnt working anymore
you: how come?
him: well, no money there, I went to the states..
you: really, wow, thats a shame and I was thinking about moving to canada.
him: really? Eum, if you want to, its not all that bad..
you: yeah,; but if you say you moved, then should I still move to canada? DO you still have contacts there?
him: well yes, I could get you in touch with...
You see what I mean????
Turn the conversation!!!!!!
Damnit, you had the perfect opportunity to speak about your possible move!!!!!!!
This has everything to do with having "the mouth" to change the topic or to adress your problem!
Yes, maybe he has problems, and yes you need to listen to him about it etc.. but also use it to speak about your problems!
Its a perfect opportunity for you to ask him about his move from canada! You can simply call him and ask him if he would advise you to move to canada or not and whether he could help you etc..
If you dont ask him, he wont know! He cant "feel" you want to move to canada!
And it wouldnt even be that bad, because by asking about canada and his move (and your potential move) he can spill his guts about canada and feel reliefed.
Of course, I dont know the supervisor and maybe he just doesnt want to talk about it.. but if you dont ask it, you wont know it.
pito on Fri Oct 28 17:37:00 2011 said:
(Keep in mind that often/sometimes even "idiots" get good jobs because they know how to network or have a big mouth/dare to ask/do! You can be the best scientist out there.. if you dont have got the balls to dare stuff ... nobody will know you/care about you. Its sad that I have to say this, but often its better to have a "big mouth" (or be manupilative/play good friends with people) then being a great scientist....)
Totally agreed that to have a "big mouth" is better than being a great scientist. I have witnessed several people in my institute who got post doc job offer easily, though they don't have any first author publication after their PhD study or after their first post doc. Another one is even worse, this post doc, though has a first author paper, is extremely poor in experimental design and doesn't know to troubleshoot experimental problems, except complaining.
What to do? This is the advantage to have super duper big mouth, and it is also essential to kiss the right ass! Or, no progress in your scientific career!