Why are we "doctors"? - (Jun/06/2014 )
To be even more complicated here, as the english (?) standard is to have a title after name (M.D., Ph.D., M.Sc. ...) we used to have a rather different sets of titles, that are in front of the name.
Usualy that was the M.D. title, "MUDr." in czech, which holds the Dr part inside (like MUDr. House for example, LOL). There we not many other titles, there were fro those with technical universities, who got Ing. title, that would translated as engineer, which is most puzzling, since it describes just anyone working in engeneering, not someone with a graduate degree (I think Dipl. Ing. is used instead in Germany).
So, after some 5 years of university studies (in a row, there were no bachelors then), you were either Ing. in the past or nothing (or "master" Mgr. nowadays in non-technicals). Not medical doctors, they had 6 year study (and they still have) after with they got their MUDr. title. Even though actually they are on the similar level as master students.
Before PhD adoption here, we have something called "small doctorate" which was kind of less than PhD now, required addition few yeras and a defense, and those got awarded different "Dr" titles depending on the topic, RNDr. was a "doctor" of Science (math, physics, biology,...), PhDr. "doctor of philosophy" (psychology, sociology,..), JUDr. a "doctor" of law. These were also in front of the name and were quite of highly regarded.
Then it was a "big doctorate" that was equivalent to PhD now, that have a special title CSc. (or further DrSc. meaning a candidate or doctor (again) of science (any science, not only the biology-math-physics kind of science)) after the name, in addition to some kind of "RNDr" of so in front of the name.
So in past, if you were a "PhD equivalent" doctor, you had some of these "..Dr" titles in front of your name anyway.
But after PhD adoption, CSc. titles could be of course used still, but only by past holders, no new CSc. are given, since it was replaced with universal PhD degree. But since PhD is in back, and you need to get masters degree first, most people (like me) are now Mgr. Some Name, Ph.D., (which would be equivalent RNDr. Some Name, CSc. earlier) and as I told earlier, many people don't know what the PhD at the back is, so they just ignore it. And for the Mgr. they often ignore it just as well, because that is some kind of new generic title, pfeew.. to bad living in a country where actually titles do matter ;)
Often they don't know where to write it, if you have a "Title" in a web-form it's usually thought as the "in front of the name" title. So it's complicated.
(and to be even more complicated, it's still possible to get "small doctorates" like RNDr. now, but since they don't have a professional value as PhD does, people only go for it if they don't feel enough for the complete PhD, or the other common reason is to get rid of the front "universal" Mgr. title, (it replaces it) because RNDr. is still more regarded than "unknown" PhD by common people.. and my late grandmother was always saying "what is it Mgr.? (short for "magister", that's how we call "master's" here) The magisters work in the pharmacy!" (sadly as with engeneers, "magister" is a professional title of pharmacy workers, it's all funny ;) )
So I only write PhD after my name for international professional correspondence (no title for non-professional), because no one knows what Mgr. is (and in english writing PhD replaces MSc anyway, it's both in the back),
and I write both in czech, but the first is often looked down on and the second often not understood.
And no, therefore it's not common to be written as "Dr." (and there is no such title, you just write your full titles), but you can be adressed as such in spoken lanuage.
And as I don't insist as much on my title(s), if you have one, people tend to call you by it.. I mean, OK company managers that come to sell us stuff, then.. fine.. in that case I correct them "well if you insist on the title..", but as of quite an importance for medical stuff, people are called by their titles even in a hospital.
I mean nothing is as bizzare as if you hear adressing "oh, good morning, mrs doctor" to an old lady laying unresponsive on intensive care psychiatric unit.. but what can you do in a country such gnawed into titles..
Ah, screw titles :)
I am not so sure I understand you...
An MD (in my country anyway) is someone who is a "doctor" , a physician... You become an MD (doctor) after you finished medical school ... (7 years) then you do a specialization or get if wanted a PhD.
Its not a PhD the general MD title.
So not sure what you mean with an MD is half a year? You mean a PhD for someone who is a physician???
A doctor (MD) can also get a PhD .. he is than a MD PhD , meaning Dr PhD ...
EDIT: we actually write the MD doctor in dutch as Dokter
While the PhD one is a Doctor!
Both have the Dr. title in front of their name but its normally only the MD's that really use this title or are called "Dr."
hobglobin on Sat Jun 7 11:28:17 2014 said:
Well I don't mention this actively, but it's registered ony my insurance card (similar to the identity card, but there I still don't have it
)...
What just came to my mind is that many "doctors" don't have this title anymore as it's not necessary (except maybe for elder people who want a real doctor helping them), but they're all called colloquial "doctor" but are actually medics or physicians, and the doctor thesis would be a tiny add-on that costs some time, but says nothing about their skills (here the MD can be done in half a year and is quite often not really scientific work and therefore not comparable with a PhD). This is true especially for practice-based physicians who don't work in a hospital and/or science.
pito on Fri Jun 6 21:06:05 2014 said:
It seems weird..
Altough: I can agree, many MDs have this "idea" that they are "better" than others.
I would, however, think that if you mention you are a Dr. and then mention you ar not an MD that they might think "bad" about you mentioning you are PhD... Seems they would even react more against it than when not mentioning it all.
hobglobin on Fri Jun 6 19:58:26 2014 said:
Well it was recommended to me by several people I know (especially when I was in a hospital), to have this possible advantage (as the MDs here are quite hierarchical thinking and might treat other doctors as coequal and not a unaware layman to whom they can try out what they want and explain nothing...anyway sure they ask if I'm a MD or something else and when I tell them no, I'm a biologist they usually explain to me the technical and biological backgrounds and don't try to talk me into expensive therapies I've to pay on my own...that's nice too
. But well I cannot say they treat me better or whatever and this is good as all should be treated the same...
Well here it's a bit different (and perhaps I used the MD wrongly), anyway you study e.g. medicine or biology and then you're a physician/medic (in german "Arzt", who is colloquially often called "doctor" (Doktor)) or a biologist (Biologe). As additional qualification you can get then a degree as doctor which would be Dr. rer nat. for natural sciences (doctor scientiarum naturalium which is an equivalent of PhD) i.e. for the biologist or Dr. med. (doctor medicinae which might be the equivalent of MD (not sure)) for physicans.
A physician might also get a PhD, if he wants to work in research, but this depends on university regulations I guess.
But the doctor for physicians developed from a qualification more to a decoration because you don't need to work many years for it (as you have for a PhD/Dr. rer. nat) and the amount of work is quite little, you can even start before you finish your studies, so it adds nothing to their job qualification but only possible reputation in front of the patients and their ego perhaps .
Anyway natural scientists usually don't use the title in daily life here, but physicians do...and well if you write Dr. Meyer (or it's written somewhere) without any other abbreviation you cannot tell what the person is, and this leads of course to confusion, and people might think you're a physician....
Trof is right, screw the titles 
pito on Sat Jun 7 12:11:07 2014 said:
I am not so sure I understand you...
An MD (in my country anyway) is someone who is a "doctor" , a physician... You become an MD (doctor) after you finished medical school ... (7 years) then you do a specialization or get if wanted a PhD.
Its not a PhD the general MD title.
So not sure what you mean with an MD is half a year? You mean a PhD for someone who is a physician???
A doctor (MD) can also get a PhD .. he is than a MD PhD , meaning Dr PhD ...
EDIT: we actually write the MD doctor in dutch as Dokter
While the PhD one is a Doctor!
Both have the Dr. title in front of their name but its normally only the MD's that really use this title or are called "Dr."
hobglobin on Sat Jun 7 11:28:17 2014 said:
Well I don't mention this actively, but it's registered ony my insurance card (similar to the identity card, but there I still don't have it
What just came to my mind is that many "doctors" don't have this title anymore as it's not necessary (except maybe for elder people who want a real doctor helping them), but they're all called colloquial "doctor" but are actually medics or physicians, and the doctor thesis would be a tiny add-on that costs some time, but says nothing about their skills (here the MD can be done in half a year and is quite often not really scientific work and therefore not comparable with a PhD). This is true especially for practice-based physicians who don't work in a hospital and/or science.
pito on Fri Jun 6 21:06:05 2014 said:
It seems weird..
Altough: I can agree, many MDs have this "idea" that they are "better" than others.
I would, however, think that if you mention you are a Dr. and then mention you ar not an MD that they might think "bad" about you mentioning you are PhD... Seems they would even react more against it than when not mentioning it all.
Arzt: same as in belgium/dutch: arts !
(arts = doctor, MD)
I find it strange you need to get some sort of additional qualification for the Dr. title as a physician...
Maybe its different from country to country than.
hobglobin on Sat Jun 7 17:31:59 2014 said:
Well here it's a bit different (and perhaps I used the MD wrongly), anyway you study e.g. medicine or biology and then you're a physician/medic (in german "Arzt", who is colloquially often called "doctor" (Doktor)) or a biologist (Biologe). As additional qualification you can get then a degree as doctor which would be Dr. rer nat. for natural sciences (doctor scientiarum naturalium which is an equivalent of PhD) i.e. for the biologist or Dr. med. (doctor medicinae which might be the equivalent of MD (not sure)) for physicans.
A physician might also get a PhD, if he wants to work in research, but this depends on university regulations I guess.
But the doctor for physicians developed from a qualification more to a decoration because you don't need to work many years for it (as you have for a PhD/Dr. rer. nat) and the amount of work is quite little, you can even start before you finish your studies, so it adds nothing to their job qualification but only possible reputation in front of the patients and their ego perhaps
Anyway natural scientists usually don't use the title in daily life here, but physicians do...and well if you write Dr. Meyer (or it's written somewhere) without any other abbreviation you cannot tell what the person is, and this leads of course to confusion, and people might think you're a physician....
Trof is right, screw the titles
pito on Sat Jun 7 12:11:07 2014 said:
I am not so sure I understand you...
An MD (in my country anyway) is someone who is a "doctor" , a physician... You become an MD (doctor) after you finished medical school ... (7 years) then you do a specialization or get if wanted a PhD.
Its not a PhD the general MD title.
So not sure what you mean with an MD is half a year? You mean a PhD for someone who is a physician???
A doctor (MD) can also get a PhD .. he is than a MD PhD , meaning Dr PhD ...
EDIT: we actually write the MD doctor in dutch as Dokter
While the PhD one is a Doctor!
Both have the Dr. title in front of their name but its normally only the MD's that really use this title or are called "Dr."
hobglobin on Sat Jun 7 11:28:17 2014 said:
Well I don't mention this actively, but it's registered ony my insurance card (similar to the identity card, but there I still don't have it
What just came to my mind is that many "doctors" don't have this title anymore as it's not necessary (except maybe for elder people who want a real doctor helping them), but they're all called colloquial "doctor" but are actually medics or physicians, and the doctor thesis would be a tiny add-on that costs some time, but says nothing about their skills (here the MD can be done in half a year and is quite often not really scientific work and therefore not comparable with a PhD). This is true especially for practice-based physicians who don't work in a hospital and/or science.
pito on Fri Jun 6 21:06:05 2014 said:
It seems weird..
Altough: I can agree, many MDs have this "idea" that they are "better" than others.
I would, however, think that if you mention you are a Dr. and then mention you ar not an MD that they might think "bad" about you mentioning you are PhD... Seems they would even react more against it than when not mentioning it all.
II think here in North America, it would depend on the situation/setting and I suppose, largely on the 'bearer's preference'. In the academe and research, I guess one is addressed as doctor- oral or written if one has a PhD. In the hospitals, I think only medical doctors would be addressed as doctors (or present themselves as doctors) to avoid patients' confusion and the PhD holder's constant denial :P. Outside of work, I guess, I would take the cue from the person him/herself...if s/he wants to be called by their first name which is doctor, then so be it.
pito on Sat Jun 7 10:36:18 2014 said:
bob1 on Sat Jun 7 09:36:18 2014 said:
Here in NZ people would be introduced as Dr if they hold either PhD or medical degree (the title of the medical degree here is MbCHb or something like Medicinae bachelorae Chirugeonae bachelorae which translates to bachelor of medicine and surgery from latin, so nothing about Dr in the degree title). Most people would probably use Name followed by PhD if they were not a medical dr, but it would depend on the person and context - they may use the title in a professional context, but not the rest of the time.
I agree with Trof regarding the one true Dr, but this one is pretty cool too:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dr+teeth
seems really weird to me to be honest to use that title.
I really don't see the point using it unless in a scientific context and even than...
Sorry, missed that bit in my reply - Dr would only be used in a formal setting such as if you were introducing someone new in a professional setting. The rest of the time just the person's name would be used without even Mr, Mrs...etc.